Friday, November 26, 2010

My Beautiful Dark Twisted Argument: Battle Royale on the new Kanye

Vijay: At first i predicted a 9.4 but then after seeing that late registration got a 9.5, I revised my estimate to a stratospheric 9.7... yet still I was wrong...

Russ: Hm. I can't agree with a 10 on it - it's not OK Computer. 9.7 or 9.8 is fine, not 10.

Vijay: It's impossible to recognize an OK Computer as being an OK Computer when it first comes out.

Russ: Good point, but the bottom line is that this album has one song that sucks: "So Appalled" So it can't get a 10.

Edgar: I mean really? What's the big deal? Oh wait I know, his name starts with Kanye and ends with West. I get it now.

Vijay: Read the Rolling Stone review, which I think absolutely nails it, and so succinctly. The reason all these perfect scores are rolling out is because no one else out there is capable of making this batshit awesome futuristic hip-pop grandeur. Opulent mad genius at its very finest. I thought the Drowned in Sound review was also excellent:
"To add to the thematic elements, on a purely musical level, MBDTF is West's most fully realized work to date. He's more sonically and lyrically spot-on than he's ever been. The production is trademark West, displaying a musicality which puts nearly any contemporary pop music to shame."
"This album should serve as a challenge to any other artists who feel that rap as a genre is constrictive to stepping their game up (cough, Andre 3000, cough). For rap fans it's both a testament to the versatility of the genre and Kanye's own brilliance that he can make something so refreshingly different which still fits comfortably in the rap canon."

Dustin: I just listened to the album. I don't get it. What's the big deal? I'm not hating but 10.0? I mean, already I can say the songs are too long. They average over 5 minutes. I think Pitchfork will regret this rating in the future.

Vijay: It's a pop thing. Kanye seems to fancy himself as a modern day MJ but I'm thinking Prince may be more appropriate. As much as Edgar will freak out about me making the comparison, there is a definite parallel. When Purple Rain came out in 1984, I'm sure that the people who were listening to The Smiths, Black Flag, The Ramones, even U2, were saying similar things about this downright weird little dude doing this grandiose pop shit: I don't get it, who does he think he is, he just says dumb stuff, he spells stuff all gay, etc...
"But Prince was an amazing musician," you're screaming.
Which is where I'm honestly surprised that some people can just coldly dismiss it as bad beats with bad lyrics without appreciating the sheer musicality that this asshat happens to have. From a purely sonic perspective, it's thrilling stuff that "makes everybody else on the radio sound laughably meek." It's pretty clear just from the music but then when you read about how hard he works, it's even more impressive. He is just a ridiculous producer/mastermind that is able to execute ambitious ideas on a massive scale.
It may be tragic in some ways, but he is
the pop star/rock star of these times, and he has elevated his game to unleash his piece de resistance, a thematically cohesive and wide-reaching monster. Which is why there are all these five star and 10/10 reviews. That other review nailed it when they talked about people like Andre 3000 now having the pressure on to do something bigger and better ("The Love Below" is wildly overrated, sorry). I don't think Pitchfork will regret this one — if anything, it is already apparent that this album is "more important" (cringe) than the Wilco and Trail of Dead albums they also gave 10.0 will ever be. And it's way, way beyond a Pitchfork discussion at this point...take a look at the Metacritic ratings:

Edgar: I'm not a Kanye hater in terms of production. I fell in love with many of his productions for Talib's and Common's albums. "Get By" is amazing. "The People," another classic. But I'm never highly impressed by what he does for himself and frankly he can go suck it as an emcee. He will never come close, for me, to Nas' rawness, Guru's honesty and Talib's gorgeous metaphors. All have made me weep and still do.
He's got a nice ear but I've already forgotten about the album. Didn't catch me on first listen and hasn't afterwards. I'll bust out a Dusty "meh" overall. Favorite part of the album are the last two tracks and more specifically Heron's excerpt.

Dustin: First let me say that I do not hate this album. There are good songs. I'm just saying it's overrated. I agree with Edgar on the MC part for sure.
Now, since when does grandiosity and virtuosity equate to good music? I don't listen to Steve Vai or Dream Theatre, even though I recognize that they are very good musicians. And yes, I give it to Kanye, he is great in the studio and very ambitious and talented. However, to me, music is not solely about the showing off of skills. Music is about emotion. And that's why comparing Kanye to Prince or MJ is laughable. Can anything Kanye do ever make you feel the way "Purple Rain" (the song) does, or "Man in the Mirror?" Not even close.

Vijay: Oh, there's emotion in there, especially on this one, but you'd never, ever sense it if you're approaching the whole thing with a meh attitude.

Dustin: Or perhaps you'd find yourself unreasonably emotional when listening to it if you're approaching the whole thing with a this is going to be the best album of the year attitude.

Vijay: I went into it having liked a couple tracks on each album, nothing more and nothing less. I still think his previous albums are overrated. But I was stunned at what he pulled off on this one.
That's not only neutral, it's absolutely nothing like your "he's just so dumb but i guess i'll have to give it a shot because everyone is talking about it (and then hate on it because everyone is talking about it)" stance.

Dustin: Okay, I'll take it back that I said you wanted to like it. But I also said I don't hate it. I said I think some of the songs are good. I just think 10.0 is ridiculous. It seems pretty unfair that I can't even give a reasonable critique without being called a hater.

Vijay: When you claim that it lacks emotion or general worth or whatever (it has no soul) that very well may be because you're literally just not feeling it, but it can come across as originating from a place of indifference where you can't be bothered to even try, especially when you've branded the guy an idiot before you've even listened to the album.
Calling the rave reviews ridiculous and claiming that there's no way a Kanye song carries any real emotional heft can seem more like you're mocking those people who happen to connect with the album, and less of a "reasonable critique." Hence the cries of hater, though I actually like "meh merchant" better (i just came up with that!).

Dustin: I only bring up emotion because your review (and many others) was mainly a rave about his production skills and creativity in the studio. And to that I say, yes, I agree. He is good at what he does. And yes, he does convey emotion. But the emotion of a Kanye or a Jay-Z is in my opinion limited to bravado. Sure, they're good when you want to go out and rage or when you feel like someone is oppressing you and you need a boost, but that's pretty limiting to me. That's why I brought it back to MJ and Prince, the two artists Kanye has been compared to recently. MJ songs, however innocent and childish they may have been at times, could inspire, could make you feel melancholy, could invoke romance. I just feel like even when Kanye is at his most skillful musically, his music remains hollow because he is not "about" anything but himself. His music is about making music and being a "success." This has been my same issue with Jay-Z and why I will always choose Nas over him, even though Nas is insane and makes a lot of horrible songs.
So yeah, I can and sometimes do enjoy Kanye, but it's just... fun. And that does not place him on a level of classic stature in my opinion.

Edgar: Agree and AGREE! Nothing Kanye has ever made, in my humblest opinion, can evoke the intense emotion or imagery of a "N.Y State Of Mind." A true classic. Makes my soul cringe every time I listen to it. Kanye is a gifted producer but its hard to separate him from MTV and what that godforsaken station means to this country and what it has become. Thats another discussion though. Blergh! Im sickened now thinking about this.

Vijay: It's not the usual, tired rap bravado. There is some dark and fascinating shit going on, "a hedonistic exploration into a rich and famous American id," a mad genius who is always on the brink of losing control, and he addresses his insanity head on. I mean, you realize that he is literally calling himself a douchebag on the lead single, right?
Egotistical, sure. but limited to the same old "I am the greatest" bullshit? If you choose to go back and listen closer you may be surprised. The Pitchfork review, by the way, barely addresses the production and music and focuses almost entirely on the thematic elements. The Village Voice also had a good piece on "plumbing the gorgeous nightmares" of the album (love that).
It's getting this amazing critical reception because both elements are there: the musicality
and a compelling narrative (no one is saying "concept" though, which is kind of interesting). It does raise him to classic stature, and it does make this a landmark album, even if you're uninterested in the story he's telling.

Jay: If I may interject, it sounds like the crux of this argument is that Dustin would not give a 10 to an album based on musicality alone if it does not affect him as a listener whereas Vijay at times divorces the two when deciding his opinion. Perhaps that is the impasse.
As for my opinion, after two full listens: 7.5/10. It starts off real strong but the second half is definitely weaker than first. Some songs go on too long but I like the surprising shifts mid-song, which are rare, if not nonexistent, in hip hop production. Album of the year? Hardly. I don't even think this is Kanye's best (that would be Late Registration). But I do think he's the best at conducting aka knowing how to combine disparate elements into cohesive wholes. Still, I think all this "GREATEST ALBUM EVER" stuff is more the result of A. People (critics?) unable to resist the rise, fall and redemption of a musical superstar and B. No one wants to be the person who gives it a less-than-stellar review for fear of being mocked, hence why many critics are gutless wonders. But there's some banging stuff on it.

Vijay: A. Since when are people interested in redemption? The whole modern celebrity culture obsession is only interested in the fall. The harder, the better. Build 'em up and tear 'em down. With a strong emphasis on the latter — after all, that's the fun part. Fuck second chances. With someone has been such an incredible egotistical douche, you honestly think people are clamoring to facilitate a rebirth of sorts? Doesn't make much sense to me.
B. And similarly, people being afraid of giving it a less than stellar review? If the aforementioned love of celebrity downfall wasn't bad enough, the holier-than-thou snarky elitism of the indie snob may be worse. In fact, I'm absolutely shocked that a meh merchant hasn't written a scathing contrarian backlash piece for a major site, even just as linkbait. Instead, everyone from little truly nerdy niche sites like Tiny Mix Tapes and Coke Machine Glow (that love seriously avant garde drone music and shit) all the way up to Rolling Stone are recognizing its brilliance. I just feel writers at all these sites were like, "oh man this grandiose pop shit is brilliant, please let me nerd out and fawn over it" as opposed to "I better join the chorus and praise it to the high heavens... damn, how am I going to make this convincing?"

Jay: I don't agree that "the whole modern celebrity culture obsession is only interested in the fall." People obviously love tearing down but in this case, there were so many fans of Kanye who either gave him a pass or out-and-out enjoyed his jackass behavior that they wanted to celebrate this alleged "rebirth." The story is just too compelling. I'm not saying they also don't like the music but if this was, say, his debut album without any of the backstory, there is no way these reviews are as stellar as they currently are.

Vijay: But for people like me and Russ, the only part of the backstory that we care about is the musical backstory: that it's his best album yet.

Jay: Well, someone agrees with me — Pitchfork: "The takeaway was that even though Kanye went through an 'extremely hard year,' the initial sales of his album meant that 'people want me to keep making music and not give up.' It's a redemption story, old as time, and enduring for a reason."

Vijay: That was the "takeaway" of Kanye's rant itself (during which people were actually heckling him). Of course he sees the album sales as redemption after swiftgate and all that garbage, but I still am struggling to see that as strongly influencing practically all journalists to go much farther than they would have otherwise.
I mean, come on, give music nerds some credit. Everyone is just so mesmerized and swayed by this bona-fide asshole's supposedly triumphant return that they're like, "jack the ratings up to the max! I don't care what the album sounds like... he's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!"?

Jay: Not as extreme, but yes, I think that's exactly what happened. His whole arc this past year was enough for an extra star or point or whatever. It's naive to think that that has no impact or influence on how the music is perceived.

Vijay: So it's really a 9/10 instead of a perfect score? I'll gladly accept that. Not to be ethno-biased or whatever, but I think British reviews of the album are a good, somewhat detached barometer... you've got NME with a 9/10 and The Guardian with a very fair 8/10, calling it a "flawed near-masterpiece."

Dustin: I really really don't want to stretch this out any longer but I have to say, I was listening to "The Blame Game" with John Legend just now, and I was like, "Okay, maybe I was too harsh about the whole emotion thing. This seems like a pretty heartfelt song. I'll give it to him." And then Chris Rock came out talking about "I never been to that part of pussy town before." Are you kidding me! Is this the Jerky Boys? You're going to tell me this is a classic? THIS? How are you going to take a supposedly serious ballad type song and end it with that? Not only is it dumb, but it's crass. Actually, it's "fuckin ridiculous."

Vijay: Yeah, no hip hop classics contain any stupid filler skits.

Dustin: Why would you put that skit there? Why? Seriously. I want to know. Maybe the most serious and "moving" song on the album, and he ends it with that. Not even a separate track either. Even on the "hip hop generally sucks sliding scale" I find it hard to understand.

Russ: The skit is funny for like three listens. After that it's annoying. I don't get skits, I don't understand why they exist at all but they seem to be a part of the process. It would make a lot more sense to me as a bonus track or something you put on a single. So yeah, it's out of place in the song, but in my opinion all skits are out of place period.

Jay: Okay, I think we have come to an agreement...it's around a 7/8 which i think is a fair score. Unless you're Dustin. Then it's a 3.

Edgar: Or me who thinks a 3 is pushing it. I just don't get it.

Russ: He rhymed sarcophagus with esophagus. I'm sold.

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