Dreamt of Fight Tears In the Belly of a Mountain: Dustin vs. Joel on Sparklehorse

Dustin: I don't get how you like this Sparklehorse album. I thought you were supposed to be some sorta punk rock hardcore mohawk guy?

Joel: Uh, yeah. I guess that a lot of what I listen to falls into said category, but it doesn't preclude me from listening to good music in whatever form or genre. This is a solid album — the production is great, the songwriting is there, it changes up nicely throughout. But maybe to reinforce your point, it is a little melancholy and you have to be in the right mood to listen to it.
What is it that you can't get into about this album?

Dustin: It just seems like one of those indie albums you hear so much about and then you listen to it and it’s just another whiny dude. Whiny dude No. 500 million droppin some mellow vibes on ya for a rainy day! I mean, it’s cool and all if you want some background stuff to mellow out to but I don’t see how bands like this consistently build up these über reputations amongst music nerds.

Joel: I guess they might get a little hype, but I don't think it's unwarranted. There are hundreds of bands that get more attention for much less (we don't need to name names right?). In terms of the album, consider this:
1. The production is great. I'm sick of bands with bigger budgets putting out shit that sounds like it was recorded on a fucking laptop. Yeah it's easy to do that, and great if you don't have the money, but anybody with any label backing them has no excuse for not having an album that sounds even close to this good.
2. The guests on this album add to Mark Linkous' vision, but he never lets them take over. Danger Mouse and Tom Waits aren't the most subtle musicians, and that they can appear without stealing the spotlight, I think that says something about ML's own musical identity — ie. he actually has one, while so many bands get by by borrowing or appropriating someone else's.
3. You could lump this in with the whiney guy playing whiney music if you want, but at least it's not precious garbage that has some bad junior high drawing of a unicorn farting out rainbows as the album cover, and he's not milking his drug addiction for the "oh, he's a tortured artist" kudos.

Dustin: I will give it to you that the album has good production, but so does the last Belle & Sebastian record and that didn’t stop that album from sounding like a five-year-old girls’ tea party (in terms of wussitude). Not that this album is that wimpy but I still don’t think great production can always justify deeming an album great, or even good.
The big problem for me is that I can’t get a real grip on anything particularly unique from this album. It all sounds like someone else to me – it’s sounds like someone went to their local indie record store, put the top 100 CDs in a blender and this is what came out. The new album by Yo La Super Dinosaur Bonnie Pavement! There’s just so much music out there today, this CD is just too average sounding to make me care about it.

Joel: I guess I'm outta points to make, unless you got more to say. This battle was kinda like this album: understated and even-keel.

Dustin: There is one thing I would like to add: the title of the album is incredibly awful. Dreamt For Light Years In the Belly of a Mountain? Sounds like a poetry book I would buy at some new age store full of crystals and wind chimes.

Joel: That's just how you get hot girls in cat eye glasses who work in libraries to sleep with you... d'uh.

Dustin: Good point. I would also like to add that the band does get bonus points with me for using the word "horse" in their name.

Get Lonelier: Dustin vs. Vijay on The Mountain Goats

Dustin: The Mountains Goats make Voxtrot sound like Pantera. They make Matt Pond PA sound like Slayer. They make a flute solo sound like someone throwing a garbage can full of pots and pans down the stairs.

Vijay: The thing is, the Mountain Goats can themselves sound like Pantera. On his last album, The Sunset Tree, John Darnielle (this is one of those deals where one guy is the band) snarls fiery lyrics, practically screaming lines like: "I'm gonna bribe the officials/I'm gonna kill all the judges/it's gonna take you people years to recover from all of the damage..." But, unlike The Sunset Tree, which was about his abusive stepfather, this new record is much more subdued. But those lyrics are still there, simple but powerful. They can swing from heartbreaking to hilarious, often within a single line. The imagery, little stories and jokes keep me hanging on every word, and I'm not even a big lyrics guy.

Dustin: Well from what I hear he might get a little rowdier from time to time but even then he just sounds like a male version of Ani. Hey, not everyone needs to rock out but it just boggles my mind how anyone can listen to this dude's nerdy voice dorking its way over these wimpy tunes. Come on man, I don't care how good his lyrics are, this sounds like the guy in your dorm who would sit on his bed playing his guitar with the door open hoping maybe some chick would walk by and be wooed in.

Vijay: Dude! I thought we agreed to no personal attacks! I was that guy in your dorm! But seriously, what can I say? I am literally a wimpy, nerdy dude. This is the music of our kind. The simple acoustic arrangements are just a backdrop to the lyrics, but that has always been the case with folk music — it's no frills. And it's hard to believe that it doesn't matter how good the lyrics are. If you are just immediately assessing the music as not manly enough and not even listening to the words, then you're a Mitchum Man. All i can do is point you in the direction of the Norwegian black metal section while I dork my way over to the sensitive singer-songwriter aisle.

Dustin: Hold your horses there, mopey. Don't try to paint me as some macho metalhead — I'd rather see Jeff Buckley brought back from the dead than Dimebag Darrell. My problem here is that every time some singer songwriter dude drops a "quiet, sensitive" album, he gets compared to Elliott Smith. But Mountain Goats ain't no Elliott Smith. Listen to Jeff Buckley — hell listen to even Kurt Cobain play an acoustic song, it tears your heart out. That's music. With this stuff, I just don't get that.

Vijay:Cobain, Smith and Buckley are (were) genius, no question. Cobain in particular had an uncanny ability to channel raw emotion even while singing something like "it's okay to eat fish because they don't have any feelings." but Darnielle can affect me just as strongly, and often more directly. When he sings about playing arcade games drunk on scotch, punching the machine in frustration and driving home buzzed in the California dusk, dreading his evil stepfather waiting for him at home... I'm there, man. I seriously feel like I'm sitting there drunk in the car with him. It's vivid and cinematic, and I thoroughly enjoy the ride.

Dustin: Okay, well maybe I'll try focusing on the lyrics then. I just can't see myself ever getting past the vocals. It's cool to have some dude telling you a cool story but the voice of the narrator is just as important as the story itself. Imagine if the voice of Darth Vader was Woody Allen instead of James Earl Jones. I don't care how badass his lines are, he'd still sound like a whiny twerp.

Vijay: I can relate. I myself used to enjoy Clap Your Hands Say Yeah until I saw them live. The guy's voice was so shrill and piercing that I literally never listened to the album again. I still cringe if I even think about his godawful warbling. The Geddy Lee syndrome, a.k.a. the "I just can't stand the dude's voice" is a perfectly understandable affliction, and one for which there is no cure...

10,000 Nays: Dustin vs. Rick on Tool

Dustin: I'm a big Tool fan (although not a big tool) but I gotta say I am not feeling the new album.

Rick: Not feeling the new Tool album? Well, you are entitled to your opinion. That's what makes the world go 'round.
Any women in the NYC area who would like to see Tool live, please email a photo of yourself and a short essay explaining why you should get Dustin's ticket to rick@hiphopkaraokenyc.com. The ideal candidate is between 4'7" and 6'5", 80-250 lbs., 17-65 years old, and doesn't hate the new Tool album. And I generally prefer brunettes.

Dustin: As a big hot shot lawyer I would think you'd be more aware of fallacies such as the ones your argument is based on.
Perhaps you are familiar with this fallacy known as The Bandwagon: a fallacy in which a threat of rejection by one's peers (or peer pressure) is substituted for evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because peer pressure and threat of rejection do not constitute evidence for rejecting a claim. Therefore you cannot win an argument by merely threatening to take my ticket away.
This also falls under the Description of Composition fallacy, which is committed when a conclusion is drawn about a whole based on the features of its constituents when, in fact, no justification provided for the inference.
Henceforth, just because I don't like the new album does not mean I do not want to see the band perform live.
Ipso facto, deez nuts.

Rick: Yeah? Well, you're a towel.

Dustin: No, you are.
Really though, the album is boring. I mean, are they so out of ideas that they have to break out a talk box? The last guy I saw do that was the guitarist from Yolk while he was performing in the on-campus pub at Binghamton University, which is now a post office.

Rick: True, but Yolk used to rock that post office. But seriously... your problem cannot be that they use a talk box on one song.
Sure, 10,000 Days isn't Undertow — but what is? It's a great album regardless. Out of ideas? Boring?
Admittedly, the structure of the album is unusual... There are really only six very long, very good songs on the album: "Vicarious," "Jambi," "10,000 Days," "The Pot," "Rosetta Stoned" and "Right in Two." The other tracks are intros or interludes; such as "Intension," which honestly lacks traditional structure (and I admit, is slow), and "Viginti Tres," which simply serves as an outro. Other tracks, such as "Wings for Marie" and "Lost Keys," build into the next track in a way that makes it that much more powerful.
An album doesn't have to be a constant, unrelenting, verse-chorus-verse assault to rock. Perhaps interludes or dynamics within songs that are longer than four minutes are boring if you have the average kid-raised-on-cartoons attention span or if you spend all of your time on a treadmill. If you're looking for something that sounds like Tool but is packaged in neat little bite-sized pop songs, maybe you should try Chevelle... but in my opinion, that's boring.

Dustin: First of all, if you’re going to wait five years to release an album, you better offer up more than six songs. Second, those six songs are all very average and offer nothing new. There’s a formula to them, which I will call the New Tool Sandwich: Start with riff and some singing, insert a few minutes of spacey jamming and kick drums, end with the the same riff and singing. If you want to spice up your New Tool Sandwich you can replace the end singing with shouting for only 59 cents. Sure, at first the sandwich seems fresh, but once you take a few bites you realize it tastes kinda like the meat has been sitting out on the counter a little too long. Understandably, most Tool fans are just really hungry, so they’ll chow down on anything. I personally expect more from such good chefs.

Rick: Your Tool sandwich isn't tasty enough? "It tastes kinda like the meat has been sitting out on the counter a little too long" Are you serious? Want a side of nuts with that?
Weak (and somewhat disturbing) metaphor aside, your complaint seems to boil down to the fact that they write songs with guitar riffs, singing (sometimes screaming), spacey jamming and kick drums — that breaks with the typical formula of pop rock.
Tool breaks with convention to write longer, more interesting, complex songs — that still rock. If the last 40 years of verse-chorus-verse pop songs isn't enough for you, and your attention span is too short to digest anything else, you'll be fine; there's plenty of great stuff out there that clocks in under four minutes and revolves around a single riff and simple hook. I enjoy some single-serving, radio-edit rock as well, but appreciate that there is a band that can create an interesting alternative to the standard formula.
I'm glad Tool is back, and this album marks another stage in their development. No, this isn't Undertow, but there really wouldn't be any point to that. If they bore you by being too complex, long-winded or "meaty," then go listen to something that won't challenge you.

Dustin: See, you're listening to me, but you're not hearing me. Tool USED to write complex and interesting songs. Now they make long jam sessions where they wank off on some riff over and over again only to end up in the same place they started. Hey, I like a nice 400-piece drum kit as much as the next metal head, but who cares if it's being used to create a watered down version of the band's original sound?
This isn't another stage in Tool's development. Nothing new has been added, yet unfortunately, a lot of the emotion seems to have been taken away. When Tool used to play live, they were dark and mysterious. Now Maynard comes on stage wearing a cowboy hat, makes bad puns and dry humps the air while singing Aenima. He's bored, man. They all are, and you can hear it in this album, by far their worst release to date.

Rick: I'm hearing you fine, but your goofy sandwich metaphor didn't exactly get across that the songs are no longer complex and interesting; a point that doesn't make sense — and is simply not true. For example, a song like The Pot is far tighter than Reflection off Lateralus, which is nowhere near as interesting or complex.
And you can't mess with a guy who comes on stage looking like Lt. Col. Kilgore, even if he's grinding the air. Just because you're bored doesn't mean they are.

Nightmare on Elsewhere: Chris vs. Jay on Gnarls Barkley

Chris: I LOVE Cee-Lo — his two solo albums are fantastic, and I didn't blame him for leaving Goodie Mob — he was trying to bring them in a direction that they needed to go in. That being said, "St. Elsewhere"sucks as an album, as it is really is an attempt by a knob-twiddler (Dangermouse) to legitimize himself as a producer. Don't get me wrong — "Crazy" is a dope summer song, but after that, he's just a Prince Paul rerun fueled by gimmickry.

Jay: First off, it's Danger Mouse, not Dangermouse but whatever. Second, I'm never gonna write the book on electronic music, but "knob-twiddlers" refers to producers who specialize in IDM e.g. Four Tet, old Caribou etc. One look at DM's discography shows Pelican City (Portishead-influenced downtempo), Gemini + Dangerdoom (hip-hop), Gorillaz (Funk/pop/hip-hop hybrid) and the Grey Album (Mash-up).
Also, and I'm not really sure if this is an opinion or just obvious fact, but "knob-twiddling" albums have always remained on the fringes of music, away from any mainstream roads, and one listen to Elsewhere shows it to be a pop/soul album. Of course, I'm also assuming you've listened to the album which, if not correct, I apologize. So I'm not really sure where the knob-twiddling comes in unless that's just your pejorative phrase for any producer you don't like, in which case, I again apologize.

Chris: Thank you Senor Musicnerd; condescension and hair splitting will get you nowhere. Stop bullshitting — you know what I mean. Gnarls Barkley consists of Danger Mouse (really? please.) pushing buttons and Cee-Lo singing. It's a crass sort of legitimization that people like Chuck Klosterman and yourself are giving this guy. What you SHOULD be apologizing for (I sense a Catholic guilt complex on the your end) is the Olestra-type digestability of this album. The whole album is pre-processed beats for the masses. It's as if he took all of Pete Rock's best hooks, Sly and the Family's horn blowing, hit "cut" and "paste", and with a little timing, had a couple of songs. I understand that all music is derivative, but come on! I put peanut butter on one slice of bread, jelly on the other and slapped that shit together, and nobody gave me four stars!

Jay: Senor Musicnerd? How did I become Hispanic all of a sudden?
What sort of legitimization am I giving him? That he makes beats? I don't even understand that comment. Why does he get bashed for making music people like? If anything, you sound like Pablo Nerdudo by shitting on something simply because of its digestability to "the masses." If anything becomes a commercial success, some people like yourself immediately dismiss it as "easily expendable," but sometimes there's a reason why albums are universally loved, namely because it builds on familiar sounds without becoming derivative. I just don't feel the "derivative argument" holds up here, especially with the non-cheesy use of gospel in a secular, pop record.
And I like your earlier sandwich-making better.

Chris: The legitimization of artistry. I am never doing to front on a head that wants to make some chedda but this album should be called out for what it is — aspirational porn for beatmaking losers who flip back and forth from the Jenna dildo scene to GarageBand.
The thing is, that when I like an album, I committ to it financially — I just don't download it willy nilly. This album is almost WANTING to be downloaded illegally — why would I want to spend money on it, much less time? Also, I like to share my music with others. Are you seriously going to bump this album outside of "Crazy" at your summer BBQ or out of your Bentley? Hell no. "Crazy" is like some lube for the drunk dry funking that this album is surely going to give you. Imagine that you're making out with some vivacious woman at the club and coax her into a cab. And you're doing all sorts of stuff to her in the cab, and she's reacting all bothered. And you're like "darn, I can't wait to hit this."
That's "Crazy".
But then you take her up, strip her down, and she's as wet as some burnt toast, with some pubic hair on it — toast a la Clarence Thomas.
That's the rest of the album.

Jay: I had to take a minute to sit on this one. Binghamton University was pretty lacking in the Creative Writing department so sadly, i'm not sure i'll be able to live up to your "response." But I think you were trying to say "Crazy" is the only good song on the album.
Or you recently had relations with a female.
Or both.
I'll just say this: "Crazy" is a great song. Not because the "masses" like it. Just because it's instantly catchy without succumbing to saccharine pop. Not all of the album is like that. Some of it is fairly dark (for poppier territory) and makes it a diverse listen in my opinion. And there you have it. Feel free to have the last word, and don't forget to mention porn, dildos and pubic hair as they're phenomenal references to why you don't like this album.

Chris: Art/music is made to provoke a reaction — hence the liberties with my description. Attempts to denigrate my opinion through the guise of word choice condescension earn little legitimacy at my Round Table of Discussion. If you are not being sarcastic then my opinion of you as a man with taste recovers slightly from the bland kudos that you give this album.
Look, if you are telling me I should love "Crazy" because it's "instantly catchy without succumbing to saccharine pop," then I've already won. You are present and happy with the knowledge of drinking the Kool-Aid, and I can't argue with that.
Hey, I was thinking of making a Sapphic porn, with dildos that have real live pubic hair. Looking for investors — you in?

Jay: Only if we can include a male lead named Gnarls Barkley.

Endtrodouching: Jay and Dustin vs. DJ Shadow

Interview with DJ Shadow:
Q: What's the Bay Area reaction been to your new 'Hyphy' tracks?
A: I heard "3 Freaks" played on KMEO which is the main urban outlet radio-wise and for the first time in my life it was in context, played alongside all these hyphy records. So we did a video and that got played next to 50 Cent videos! This gave me confidence to continue down that road. It's not as if I grew up getting rock radio love or any type of radio love so for that to happen it was like "oh I'm gonna come with something better next time!"

Jay: I've only heard the single but I already hate the album.

Dustin: Let's battle over an album we haven't heard yet. Only I can't do the pro side because I already hate it as well.

Jay: We just could make fun of the tracklisting and guest names:
1. Outsider Intro
2. This Time (I'm Gonna Try It My Way)
3. 3 Freaks-Feat. Keak Da Sneak & Turf Talk
4. Droop-E Drop
5. Turf Dancing-Feat. The Federation & Animaniaks
6. Keep Em Close-Feat. Nump
7. Seein Thangs-Feat. David Banner
8. Broken Levee Blues
9. Artifact [Instrumental]
10. Backstage Girl-Feat. Phonte Coleman
11. Triplicate / Something Happened That Day
12. The Tiger-Feat. Sergio Pizzorno & Christopher Karloff
13. Erase You-Feat. Chris James
14. What Have I Done-Feat. Christina Carter
15. You Made It-Feat. Chris James
16. Enuff-Feat. Q-Tip & Lateef The Truth Speaker
17. Dats My Part-Feat. E-40
Even the Animaniaks half two spel there naim weird.

Dustin: I didn't realize it was a spelling mistake - I just assumed the album is another one of those Cartoon Network side projects since half the song titles were written by five-year-olds.
But those sure am some silly names. Everyone must have been so pissed at Shadow for ruining the album by throwing on that lame-ass "Chris James."
"You think I named myself Sergio Pizzorno so I could be upstaged by a guy whose moniker is two of the most popular names in the English language?"

Jay: Even "Droopy" is spelled wrong! They couldn't even leave that alone and had to make it "Droop-E." Unless that's someone's name which is equally retarded.
And "Dats My Part"? Who the fuck came up with that? I guarantee they were all in the studio one day, smoking, and one of the other misspelled miscreants started telling everyone about "a hot verse I wrote" but he was so blazed, he read someone else's verse. Bam! A song title! It's like the Beatles discovering acid except completely forgettable in every respect.

Dustin: Yeah, they didn't have enough room for track 18 — "Levels Up on Mic Three, Yo".
"Turf-Dancing" is either about celebrating after you win the Super Bowl or embarrassing rival thugs by forcing them to dance at gunpoint.

Jay: So this is Turf Talk:











The man who made one of the most brilliant, brooding, thoughtful albums of all time is now working with rappers who feel the best image representation of themselves is squint and eat their necklace.
I'm still try to figure out how "Nump" got his name.

Dustin: Nump is actually a girl rapper who is both a nun and a pimp. Technically she's a madam but I don't think the hyphy scene is too big on details. And, don't diss Turf Talk man, that was a hot colabilation.
By the way, is it not ironic that Q-Tip makes his 5 millionth guest appearance on a track named "Enuff"?

Jay: Track 19 — "Rent Check" — featuring Q-Tip, Craig Mack and Jeru the Damaja.

Dustin: I'd just like to end this by saying that DJ Shadow was bragging about having his video shown next to 50 Cent's video. That's like a diamond bragging that it was dropped on a turd.

Witchcraft: Chris vs. Dustin on Wolfmother

Chris: I illegally downloaded this album and listened it to it ONCE. I heard the hype, followed the hype, and proceeded to throw up in my mouth. As far as I am concerned, this is "lad-rock" in the vein of Death From Above 1979, with very little substance but a lot of volume. These guys have packaged themselves as having an edge, but I think Hanson from 10 years ago would take them out in a battle of the bands.

Dustin: I’d like to know what you mean by “lacking substance.” They are a simple band: their goal was to rock, they listened to some Sabbath and Zepplin, wrote an album, and now they rock. Wolfmother does not ponder the effects of globalization on our culture. Wolfmother writes catchy rock tunes with ass-kicking riffs. Is that okay? Is that frigging legal anymore? Am I allowed to go to a concert and have a good fucking time and raise some devil horns in the air and say fuck yeah when I hear a good solo, damn it! What the fuck is with this persecution of anyone who tries to rock? FUCK!

Chris: You can rock all the fuck you want, but if you sound like the band that Robert Plant would have started if he grew up in THE SHIRE (surrounded by hobbits and warlocks and 21-sided dice) then no, you can't rock. You are just listening to prepackaged, recycled rawk from the 70's with a grown-up A&R's pubescent notions of what "rocks" — hence my line about the lack of substance.
Unfortunately, I have a good memory and I can hear their influences. Obviously you can too — you pointed out the Zep and Sabbath tendencies in their music. I guess if I was 15 and had wack older brothers, sisters and parents, and heard this the first time without being exposed to the good stuff, I would shit my pants and stop taking out my sexual energy on my zits and try to go out and get laid — it does rock. But as someone who's been around the musical block, I can't legitimize this as good music.
Is this is what music has become, when even the new bands are dragging out old standards like a senile Sinatra?

Dustin: Well maybe since you listened to the album “ONCE” you can’t tell the difference between a band that simply relies on classic sounds from a band that makes fake bullshit (like The Darkness). Yes, the first time you hear Wolfmother, it’s like, eh, more rehashed music stolen from the golden age. But if you actually listen to the album, you’ll see that they are actually excellent song writers. Instead of relying on one riff, the tracks change and evolve. They’re even better live, extending songs with solos and playing up to the crowd.
Maybe if you gave them a chance you could actually enjoy it but noooooo. We’re all so quick to jump on the hater bandwagon these days if someone doesn’t reinvent the wheel. “Wow, Sufjan plays the english horn AND the oboe on track four!” Who gives a shit?

Chris: Not interested in hearing their "excellent song writing." Not interested in hearing their "extending songs with solos and playing up to the crowd." I'm not in the business of music criticism — I'm in the business of pleasure. I don't friggin care about their musicianship — I want to hear something new. Take what somebody else did well and move on from it — that's when you got me. But if you are just writing and playing what has been known to work in the past, then you are just after my sentimental buck.
Music like this is ALWAYS going to be good. Maybe the laspe between when it becomes cool again will be shorter, due to the Internet. But right now, all it sounds like to me retro-poser-posturing. I have no problem with being 27 and liking the music that I like — I have no need to relive my high school days by pretending that I never heard anything like this before.

Dustin: Music like this is ALWAYS going to be good? Okay, well, you got me there. Yup, can’t argue with that.

Chris: Music like this is always going to be good for people who never heard anything like it before. If you have, its a friggin snore fest.

At War On The Mystics: Paula vs. Jay on The Flaming Lips live

Jay: I could take the con side in a battle over the new Flaming Lips album and win solely on "The Yeah Yeah Yeah Song." Bleeecchhh.

Paula: Yeah, that's about as annoying as it gets.

Jay: That song reminds me of a bad parody song that Ween would write. Should've been a B-side instead of the friggin single.

Paula: It could just as easily be the latest They Might Be Giants jingle for a Nickelodeon show. But I'd rather take the con side on their live show. The Webster Hall gig they played on April Fool's could have been awesome (not to mention longer) if Wayne had stopped yapping about what a great time we were supposed to be having banding against Bush and playing with giant balloons. It was, how you say... lame.

Jay: I must respectfully disagree on the Webster show. The Bush-baiting was annoying and yes, it's the same show they've done for a while, but the aliens, santa clauses, children's animal sounds and "War Pigs" encore all entertained me. How many boring indie rock acts that do nothing on stage can I sit through consecutively?

Paula: I don't know. Maybe I've just seen them too many times, but their live show feels so gimmicky and rehearsed ("War Pigs" encore aside) at this point that I fail to see how it's any different from the latest generic indie rock act's (insert really long, non-sensical name here) live set. And I have to listen to Wayne Coyne's politics and "man, you guys are the best fans in the world (group hug)" hippie sentiments. If you shut your eyes it's like you're at a Phish concert.

Jay: I think it's different in that most indie rock acts run through their songs and that, while respectable and enjoyable, don't vary too much from the studio versions. With Lips shows, though they haven't changed much, they're still better than your average concert in that they actually put on a "show" versus a "concert." A big difference to me.
As for the hippie sentiments, again, I'd rather have a band I like, a band I invest time, money and energy into, a band that has given me good memories and many hours of listening pleasure, tell me they give a shit than some spoiled jackass like Craig Nicholls who STILL owes me $20 after drunkenly stumbling on stage, sucking with his piece of shit, third rate Nirvana band, then stumbling off. Unless I'm watching Pete Doherty die on stage (and please, God, let me be there when that happens), I'll go for the hippie love over blasé nonchalance any time. Hell, even Morrissey was appreciative when I saw him.

Paula: But how many times can you see the same show before it becomes too standard and predictable? For the most part, I like the Flaming Lips and their weirdness and I hope they prove me wrong when they tour bigger venues later this year in support of Mystics. The fact that Coyne keeps having to tell the audience what a mothertruckin' great time they're supposed to be having is extremely telling of how tired their bit has become. Ever been to a party where the host kept asking you how much fun you were having every five minutes? How fast did that get old?
Think of a band like Broken Social Scene. Having 200 members on stage at the same time could get old really fast, but every time I've seen them it's been different and just as fun. They're on stage, they're having a great time and they're making fantastic music without having to check in on the audience to make sure they "get it." The Lips used to be able to do that and that's part of the reason I'll always be a fan and, like you, respect them and cherish the many memories they've given me. I know; I'm such a sap. But seriously, Coyne should stop bemoaning Bushie (how many Republicans were in the audience anyway?) long enough to remember how to genuinely throw the party he keeps talking about.
And, as a PSA of sorts, if you ever attend Pete Dougherty's final train wreck, in addition to taking pictures please promise me you'll dress like the boy in the plastic bubble. That guy just oozes crotch critters.

Which is Witch: Ed vs. Dustin on Witch

Dustin: Did you listen to Witch?
Ed: Yeah. How old are they?
Dustin: I think they're new.
Ed: I know, but age-wise. 17?
Dustin: Well, one guy is old because he was in Dinosaur Jr., so I would guess the rest are too.
Ed: REALLY. Damn. When I listened to the first song I thought they were mad young — playing very easy riffs and almost struggling with the soloing.
Dustin: Except when they're being awesome.
Ed: It's just not in me anymore — not this kind of rock at least.
Dustin: I am still awesome so I like it.
Ed: I'm listening to "Seer" right now. How can you be excited about this?
Dustin: Because I like heavy metal solos.
Ed: He just barely scaled. Listen to Metallica or Megadeth. Why settle for less? That's what I'm saying.
Dustin: Maybe I don't want to hear something I've heard 50,000 times. I want something NEW. NEW, get it?
Ed: That's the point. This ISN'T NEW.
Dustin: The songs are new, the style isn't. I don't want a new style. I like the old style, I just want new albums.
Ed: Fair enough.
Dustin: Sure, I'd rather have Megadeth make a new Rust in Peace, but they are old and suck now, just like Tool and the Chillis and Metallica and Audioslave etc... Old = you suck.
Ed: I'd rather suck than like poser shit.
Dustin: Why is it poser? Don't you think these guys realize they're not being original? They're HAVING FUN.
Ed: Old Ozzy and Metallica would kill Witch or The Sword in a fight.
Dustin: This is a side project for some famous rock dude who is just enjoying himself.
Ed: Great, even more poser. Metallica was living in a warehouse. Sabbath was in factory hell. This is a side project for a famous rock dude? Yeah, that's fucking rock n roll.
Dustin: Oh, so you have to be poor to rock? What the fuck does that mean?
Ed: I'm just saying you can hear the difference between good music and shit that is recycled. Hence why the classics will always be classics and the rest will be forgotten in a few months.
Dustin: No shit. Look, if you compare every new record to Stevie Wonder, The Beatles and Led Zepplin, you'll never like anything ever again.
Ed: Except for Gnarls Barkley.
Dustin: You're a pussy.
Ed: Not true. I liked the John Legend album, parts of it.
Dustin: Oh man, that's mad original. He is creating a new genre. He sounds nothing like anyone before him.
Ed: Hey man, like whatever you want. I will do the same.
Dustin: You just contradicted your entire argument. That's all I'm sayin.
Ed: Sometimes we will agree and sometimes we will not.
Dustin: Can we just agree that you contradicted yourself?
Ed: How so?
Dustin: Talking about original this and that and then saying you like John Legend.
Ed: Yeah, there were some really good tunes on the album.
Dustin: But according to your logic, why not just listen to Deangelo?
Ed: What do you mean?
Dustin: You said I can't listen to Witch or The Sword because Metallica did it first. Same thing here. Go listen to Maxwell.
Ed: I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying why would you get so excited when something is clearly not as good or even on the same page as the original? You said you like solos — they barely got through one. Meanwhile Metallica and Megadeth have two guitars going at the same time, soloing forever, up and down, deathly killing you. Witch just seems amatuerish, hence why I asked how old they were.
Dustin: It's not that I love soloing Dream Theatre style shit where I can hear someone invent a new arpeggio. I like the fact that someone actually took a fucking guitar solo. Nobody rocks anymore - think about it. NOBODY. So, when someone tries, when they put out some fun riff rock I can bang my head to, it makes me happy. Sure, I'll be bored of it quickly, but it is fun and makes me happy and I applaud the effort.
Ed: Well that's all that matters then — your happiness. I will only applaud good music for I am a snob.

Fear & Loathing in Coachella Pt. 1

Coachella 2006. Total experience:
Jay: A quick look at the back pages of NME around this time reveals a startling and overwhelming amount of music festivals taking place this summer in a number of different countries. Seemingly every country - most notably England - has a major music festival, drawing numerous high-profile acts, DJs, and up-and-coming indie rock groups that, if you got the time and the budget, could fill every weekend from now til Labor Day (do they even have Labor Day in Europe?). Here in the States, our choices are much more limiting. How limiting? Enough to fly 3,000 miles, drive two hours and stay in an ridiculously overpriced motel where their version of a "Bellboy" consists of suspiciously surveying the room hoping no living insects or non-living humans were still in our presence for Coachella, one of the U.S.'s biggest music festivals (held annually in Indio, CA).
But overall, It was definitely worth trooping it out to the desert given a lineup that, while not as good as last year, was enough to keep you running around from stage to stage. The highlight for me was not so much Daft Punk, but more the fact that She Wants Revenge had to go on concurrently and presumably "rocked out" to a crowd consisting of two security guards, a churros vendor and a rabbit.
Dustin: Yeah I thought it was pretty sweet. I could have done without being herded like cattle on the way out Sunday night but otherwise I had no complaints.

The Walkmen:
Dustin: Painful. It was like watching an excruciatingly loud version of The Strokes headed by a bad Bob Dylan impersonator.
Jay: You sound like a contankerous, old hippie. I liked them. Good energy and I think the Dylan thing is what made him unique and set him apart from all the screechers that pass as vocalists in similar bands.

Wolfmother:
Jay: I guess I like them but I can only like them to a certain extent because they're a bit more revivalist than their talent indicates. "Apple Tree" is the best song Jack White never wrote. They were exciting to watch live but the concert was ruined by the wussiest leg kick from a lead singer I have ever seen. Send him some tapes of Freddie Mercury and David Lee Roth - who ironically wrote much more polished and light pop songs - and get back to me.
Dustin: You plagarized that White Stripes line pretty much word for word from RollingStone. Wolfmother could use a few metal lessons, especially with their image, but they offer up some nice riff rock and know how to work the crowd, and actually look like they enjoy playing music.
Jay: I can ASSURE you that I haven't read the RS review and any similarity is PURELY coincidental. Plus, I made the Jack White reference on "Apple Tree" WHILE the song was playing.

Hybrid f. Perry Farrell:
Dustin: We didn't stick around long enough to see Perry come on but from what I heard it sounded like the soundtrack to the newest Mortal Kombat sequel. However, since I was at a music festival, not playing Tekken, this is a bad thing.
Jay: I barely listened to Hybrid but anything involving Perry Farrell at this point I don't really care about because most likely it will involve annoying tribal drums and Burning Man references.

Digable Planets:
Jay: I stayed for two songs. One of them was "Rebirth of Slick." The other was called, I believe, "Not Rebirth Of Slick." They had a live band a la Soulive, which was like watching a classic rock drum solo - hot for five minutes, but then quickly making you suffocate yourself with your neighbor's backpack.
Dustin: I didn't see any of Digable Planets but I could feel them being boring from two stages away.

Common:
Dustin: Speaking of boring, WOW. Why do rappers still think that nobody knows anything about hip-hop? If I hear one more lecture on the elements of hip-hop, I'm going to blow my brains out. 3-6 Mafia won an Oscar. I think the word is out on hip-hop.
Jay: I also note Common introducing us to "The World's Greatest DJ," who proved his title by diggin deep in the crates to shock us with the obscure hip-hop classic "It Takes Two" to the crowd's delight. Someone's been practicin! And Matishyahu rhymed better than Common.

James Blunt:
Jay: Really, what's the point? Why? When I first heard his name, I thought he'd be a cool rapper. But no. We get this insipid Hugh Grant/Damien Rice hybrid. At least do something cool and duet with Maynard instead of strumming your acoustic and telling me how beautiful I am.
Dustin: Seeing who made up the crowd that rushed into the tent to get a good spot for James Blunt was enough for me.

TV on the Radio:
Dustin: They were pretty hot, although some of their stuff sounds better in the studio and comes off a little too noisy live. "Young Liars" is always a highlight.
Jay: And the white guy was "The World's Greatest Beatboxer" like Common's man was "The World's Greatest DJ."

Depeche Mode:
Jay: How do you follow an incredible intro of energetic, uptempo songs? Let's do five mopey ballads in a row, one of which by a guy who dresses like this?

Dustin: Yeah, they definitely let the air out of the balloon with the middle of their set. Plus they didn't do "Policy of Truth." But they did have a sweet stage set-up.

Daft Punk:
Dustin: Remember when everyone ran from Depeche Mode to see Daft Punk, and then when you got there you saw why everyone was running: two guys dressed as robots were standing on a giant LCD pyramid playing the best DJ set ever made in a huge tent full of thousands of people going absolutely insane.
Jay: Yeah, what was even more incredible was how they were able to mix and blend with giant metallic gloves on and hear the music through enormous helmets. I mean, you'd think that it'd be impossible to do that, what with the fact that it's hard to adjust the music with concrete blocks on your hands and all but I guess that's why they're so lauded. Now THAT'S sarcasm! Remember when Kraftwerk was doing the same thing only actually playing music?

Franz Ferdinand:
Jay: Oh boys, your cheekiness is just the living end!
Dustin: I remember my only comment to you was "How can you like this pussy shit?"

Damien Marley:
Dustin: Hey, I'm a white girl in high school dressed in a bikini top, short shorts and knee-high socks, and when I say reggae, I actually mean reggaeton! I thought Damien Marley was pretty hot, although Daddy Yankee would have been way cooler! LOL!
Jay: "Me want to show you me versatility and how good me album is. Ready, rude boys?! Let's do a medley of me father's famous songs for 15 minutes." Man, what a shameless ploy. Some may say...."dread"ful. Hey ohhhhhhhh!

Electric Fish: Jon vs. Russ on Lightning Bolt's John Peel Session

Jon: When John Peel says "This is Lightning Bolt," there's this swath of echo and reverb in his voice. It sounds pretty cool. Then it sounds like Lightning Bolt are playing for a few minutes, and then they just kind of stop for a few minutes so Phish can take the stage.

Russ: Okay, before I destroy you I want to make something clear to everyone reading this: You are not kidding—correct? You are not doing this as a joke, you actually believe that the majority of the Lightning Bolt John Peel Session sounds like the jam-band Phish, right?
Now, having answered that, can you please tell me what it is exactly about this performance that makes them sound like Phish? I hear no similarities at all.

Jon: I'm not kidding. I wish I were. Everyone screams "lighting bolt! Lightning Bolt! LIGHTNING BOLT!" I scream "Phish?!"
Lightning Bolt is a jam-band. The Peel Session is very jam-band-y. I can picture them playing Woodstock 2000 as overtanned new age hippies are smoking pot and screaming "awesome!" while they wave lighters in the air.
This reeks of a jam band. Every now and then there's a bit that's more aggressive than your average jam band, but I don't see anything that really sets them apart. I think John Peel felt the same way—either he was poorly hiding an advanced form of Alzheimers, or he was high as a fucking kite (I'm betting on the latter)—if not for the fact that he ends his outro calling it one of the best performances he's seen, he also praises Erase Errata.
No one praises Erase Errata, aside from college aged lesbians going through their post-structualism is cool/I heart Kathy Acker phase.

Russ: Okay, Jon, I need to direct you a bit or else this battle won't go anywhere. Stay focused. We are not talking about John Peel's opinion, this is about my opinion and your totally fucking retarded opinion. We are not talking about Erase Errata, we are talking about Lightning Bolt. Keep your comments focused to the battle—I'm not interested in your stupid post-structuralism lesbian tangents, and neither is anyone else. You say Lightning Bolt sounds like Phish, and I say that you are a fucking moron. Keep the battle there. Nobody gives a fuck about Kathy Acker.
That being said, the only thing you said that was relevant to answering my question was "every now and then there's a bit that's more aggressive than your average jam band, but I don't see anything that really sets them apart."
Lightning Bolt crushes skulls. They play with such intensity that I can hardly even believe that there are two people unleashing this massive sonic assult that is making my head explode in the most wonderful way imaginable. Phish doesn't crush anything. Their music is weak—crappy little drippy songs about lizards and mockingbirds that they sing while hopping up and down on trampolines. Well-composed, yes, but it's for pussies. I should know—I've seen Phish live over 60 times back when I was a hippy—unfortunately I'm very familiar with that awful, awful band. I am ashamed to admit that I am an expert on Phish.
Lightning Bolt sings about putting George W. Bush in a vat of oil and boiling him until his ears fall off. They beat the living shit out of you with heavy demonic riffs and a drummer that plays like a metronome on acid. They rock so hard that sometimes I can't even believe that this music exists. Phish is the complete opposite of Lightning Bolt.
Your argument is that this Lightning Bolt show sounds like Phish. I challenge you to cite one piece of music made by Phish—anything from a live show or cut in a studio—that sounds like this Lightning Bolt show.

Jon: I'm focused, or at least trying to, but it's hard listening to this shit.
And John Peel and Errase Errata and lesbians are relevant. They form a corollary to my argument. Or is my argument a corollary to them? I'm confused. It's this damn hippie shit that's playing.
If Lightning Bolt crushes skulls, the skulls must be the size of ants, and they're probably only crushed by accident as the members of Lightning Bolt daintily prance around them. I'd say step, but step sounds too manly. Prance seems like the better term. I bet they all cry together whenever one of those tiny ant skulls is crushed, and they follow it with a group hug before they all take bong hits and jam on something happy to make them feel better.
You're only half right about Phish—their music is indeed "weak—crappy little drippy songs about lizards and mockingbirds that they sing while hopping up and down on trampolines." But the "well-composed" part? You must be too much back in your former hippy pussy mindset from listening to all that Lightning Bolt.
I didn't hear any demonic riffs. I heard a lot of freeform/avant-garde jazz guitar and percussion sections—especially in "On Fire," right before they jump into and especially during that part that sounds like a lullaby about halfway into the song.
I don't have any Phish songs. I don't know them at all. Whenever I've heard them, I've said "this is awful shit" and made someone change the music.
This Lighting Bolt recording is anything but hard though—it's fast and aggressive AT MOMENTS, but overall I find it more pretty and light. Lightning Bolt is unarguably a jam band. Listening to it more, I find a bit more in common with freeform/avant-garde jazz, but I still find them very similar in approach to the little Phish I've heard.
I'm so surprised at how worked up you can get over this. I find it kind of boring.

Russ: I'm not worked up Jon. This blog is for entertainment, and unloading on you with both barrels during this battle has been entertaining for me, and hopefully it will be for others as well. Don't take it personally.
That being said, you just ended this battle by admitting that you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
You called this battle. Nobody said, "let's have a battle where one guy says that Lightning Bolt sounds like Phish and the other guys says that they don't." That's because it is quite likely that you are the only person on the face of the Earth who would make such an asinine comment. This Lightning Bolt-Phish battle was 100 percent your idea.
You fully and openly admit that you are completely unfamiliar with Phish. Your words: "I don't know them at all."
You demonstrate that you don't know Lightning Bolt either. You said that "I heard a lot of freeform/avant garde jazz guitar," but Jon, there is no guitar. Lightning Bolt is a drummer and a bass player. There is no guitar.
Based on your self-proclaimed ignorance of Phish, there is no battle here. This "battle" is between a guy that knows quite a bit about Phish and Lightning Bolt and a guy that knows nothing about either band but for some reason wanted to battle. And that's not a battle—it's a slaughter—not to mention a complete waste of my time. Pick yourself up off the mat and hit the showers.
It's over Johnny.

Jon: "You fully and openly admit that you are completely unfamiliar with Phish..."
I don't know them at all. That doesn't mean that I haven't heard them. I don't know Christina Aguilera at all either, but from what I've heard she sounds like run of the mill awful pop crap. You don't have to be a die-hard Phish fan to say "Hey, this sounds like Phish." I think you've got this ex -hippy standard that I must know them as intimately as you.
"You said that 'I heard a lot of freeform/avant-garde jazz guitar' but Jon, there is no guitar..." Hate to break this to you Russ: it's called a bass guitar. The high strings sound more like a guitar than a bass, and with octave shifters (like LB is known to use), they sound even more similar. Hell, you can even stuff a bass through a distortion pedal and make notes that sound like guitar chords. And oh, wait, what's this? Lightning Bolt have acknowledged Sun Ra as an influence.
"...there is no battle here. This "battle" is between a guy that knows quite a bit about Phish and Lightning Bolt and a guy that knows nothing about either band but for some reason wanted to battle..."
Lightning bolt is a jam band. Phish is a jam band. They both get on stage and wank (or sit in the middle of the crowd and wank—it's your call). You say they're angsty noise, fine, but you're wrong. They're artful pretty noise and they jam on it (like those moments where Sonic Youth just play feedback so they can call it art, but then everyone just leaves). I think years of listening to pussy shit like Phish warped your mind and gave you a really low bar on what hard music is, and gave you the inability to realize its a jam band when they're two feet in front of you.

Russ: Stay down Johnny, stay down.

Whatevs: Dude vs. Who Bout Somethin

Dude: Hey remeber that album by that guy? That sucked.

Who: No way, that was awesome. I liked the part with the songs.

Dude: You are dumb. There were way too many cymbals and too much guitaring.

Who: You look like a foreskin. That was the best album of all time. It makes me cry and think of sunshine.

Dude: What about track four?

Who: Yeah that one sucks donkey balls.

Dude: You suck donkey balls. That's the only good track on the album. I played it at my wedding.

Who: How could you have played it at your wedding when you're still a virgin? Also, how can you have herpes when you've never kissed a girl?

Dude: I got it from your mom, when I was laying pipe in her backyard. I played track four during that too.

Who: You're a plumber?

Dude: No, I do landscaping mostly.

Who: Do you like music?

Dude: No.

Who: Me also.

Y: Ravi vs. Paula on My Morning Jacket

Ravi: I might have liked this album seven years ago, but then again, seven years ago, I was living a life sustained by a diet of Jack Daniels, marijuana and ecstacy, with the ocassional mushroom trip, if I was able to make enough money selling promo CDs to secondhand record stores. Point being, there are only two kinds of people that this album could possibly appeal to: druggie hippie fools, or reformed-but-still-holding-on-to-the-hippie-dream ex-druggie hippie fools.

Paula: Did the mushrooms make you listen to Phish? Is that why you're so bitter about music that can be trippy and haunting without outside help? You got home one night, accidentally put on the new String Cheese Incident or that awesome Phish bootleg from 1995, found yourself loving it and now have to hate on anything that even mildly reminds you of that night, right? It's OK, these things happen. My Morning Jacket forgives you.

Ravi: I have no regrets about what I did or what I listened to back in the day. What I do regret, however, is having to sit through this musical abortion. If this is what passes for trippy and haunting these days, then I'd suggest that you START a drug regimen, stat. MMJ is like one of those bands that has a great live appeal—to burnouts and hipsters that like simple music —but there's nothing ambitious or exciting about their studio work. "Wordless Chorus" is the only good song on this album, and after that promising start, Jim James lamely falsettos through nine more tracks. Even I could squeeze out more emotion from a dishrag. This album should really be called ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Paula: So, wait, how can you say MMJ has "great live appeal" because of their simplicity (and yes, I realized that was a backhanded compliment) and then turn around and say that the same quality makes them unambitious in the studio? I suspect I'd manage to squeeze a less half-assed approach from a hippie burnout or from that charismatic dishrag you seem to have lying around.

Ravi: It's that in the studio, they lack disciprine, grasshopper. On stage, all is forgiven for digressions, because the whole point of a live concert is to take a song from the manufactured studio process into something spontaneous. I think most people would like that—being able to chant along with their favorite songs, and bob their heads to a jam session. But, it's a totally different experience, for me at least, when played on the booming system. That's because the whole point of an album is for heads to actually LISTEN, not just hear. My Morning Jacket is too fucking concerned with fellating Jim James on Z that the whole process becomes about "let's show how versatile his voice is." Live, this could be accepted as a thematic part of the set, but in the studio, it's just some pretentious shit. I mean "Off The Record" has great lyrics, and I read it as MMJ's mesage to the fans about the musical crossroads they're at, but they record it as Jim James doing a Bono circa Zooropa impersonation, and what's up with that wack Hawaii 5-0 riff, and then the song just keeps going for another three minutes. Get to the next fucking song already!

Paula: Oh master, you're so wise, for a snob. I think you're obsessed with Jim James in a not so healthy kind of way. Surely you'll concede that a good album doesn't have to have "chant-ability" to it. What makes Z work, considering that so much of it is reminiscent of a jam session is that it's very much the kind of album you can throw on and have on the background for hours. It works as a background soundtrack, but also remains interesting should you be in the mood to actually focus on it. Why are you in such a hurry to get to the next song, anyway?

Ravi: That's right, I love Jim James and want to have all his babies. Oh wait, that's not me, that's just every single MMJ fan's reaction from when they played at Webster Hall last year. If they still sold beer in glass bottles I would have ended up stabbing someone in the neck. But you prove my point, Z is nothing more than background music—background music that would make Tim Leary proud—turn on and tune out. Doctors should prescribe Z as a cure for insomnia.

Paula: You cannot possibly judge a band by the hipster fan base that shows up in New York. I would've gladly helped you sharpen shards of glass at Webster and while we bonded over which dirty Brooklyn kid rocking a full beard we'd hit first, I would continue to argue that just because you can tune out when MMJ is playing doesn't make them boring. As a matter of fact, I bet you an anti-hipster rampage with Z as the soundtrack would be the perfect cure for the winter blues.

Art Brit: Dustin vs. Unwilling Amazon Reviewers on Art Brut's Bang Bang Rock & Roll

Art Brut Fan 1: I can't stop listening to this album!

Dustin: I can't stop not listening to it.

Art Brut Fan 1: This band is in touch with everything I like about British pop/rock. If you enjoy newer bands like The Libertines, Babyshambles, Mando Diao, Futureheads, etc... Check out this album!!!

Dustin: Are you trying to convince me not to buy the album? Because a Babyshambles comparison is about as much of a compliment as telling your girlfriend she looks like Rhea Perlman.

Art Brut Fan 2: Eddie Argos' humorous lyrics and sometimes-sung, mostly-spoken vocals may initially make Art Brut seem like a novelty band or some kind of parody, but don't be fooled.

Dustin: Too late.

Art Brut Fan 2: If you like Britpop at all, don't be scared away by the unconventional frontman; you owe it to yourself to check out this outstanding record.

Dustin: If you like Britpop at all, you're probably scared by a cool breeze.

Art Brut Fan 3: This album blows me away. I can no longer imagine my CD collection without it.

Dustin: What would keep your Artic Monkeys CD company?

Art Brut Fan 4: Art Brut sounds like something out of the '80s British post-punk and if not for the date on the label, you wouldn't know the difference.

Dustin: Wait, wait, WAIT A SECOND! A band... today... that sounds like they're from... the '80s? NO! That's insane! That's sheer brilliance! Who would have ever thought to bring back that sound? Only a true genius, only a complete master of originality could have had such an idea! Forget music, these guys should be working on cold fusion! They should be planning our colonization of Mars! I thought it was a joke when they said they'll bring peace to the Palestinians and Israelis, but now I see that they weren't kidding! Boy oh Babyshambles!

Blood On Our Hands: Dustin vs. Jon on Death From Above 1979

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New Heaving: Flustin vs. Dustin on Dub Trio

Dustin: The new Dub Trio album stinks like a dead fish.

Flustin: Oh, heaven forbid someone changes their style one tenth of one degree, you pompous ass.

Dustin: Hey, their last album was chill and spacey and awesome. How am I supposed to chill out when they're blasting me in the face with double bass?

Flustin: They're doing something creative to a repetitive genre. How many more of the same dub albums can you have? Hey, awesome, another 60 minutes of no vocals and echoing snare shots. Dude, they're giving dub a kick in the ass.

Dustin: I'll give you a kick in the ass. And yeah, those are some really great changes on this album. Let's make a song that sounds like it was written by Incubus and get Mike Patton to sing over it. Mike Patton! Who is more washed up than him? He'll do anything. Give me ten minutes and I'll get him to write the next entry for this blog.

Flustin: I find that hard to believe considering the contents of this post. Anyway, I like that song. It's catchy and it reminds me of Faith No More. And Mike Patton is talented and does cool stuff with Bjork and Rhazel.

Dustin: I like when he plays with Mr. Bungle and does ten minutes of screaming. That's awesome. Almost as awesome as one and a half minute tracks of wanna-be Pennywise rips.

Flustin: That was one track and so what, it's balanced out by the next track, which is seven minutes of your lovely traditional dub. Look, this is a solid album by a trio of talented musicians who are actually trying to innovate. Half of it rocks, half of it is stoner space out music. It's good. Admit it.

Dustin: Nope. I hate everything and I hope you die.

Flustin: Well, tough titties for you then.

Frances The Moot: Chris vs. Dustin on Mars Volta

Dustin: Mars Volta sucks my balls. Okay, their first album was not bad. If they cut a few of the songs down from eight minutes to five minutes, they would have had a really fantastic album. But the latest one — what a crock of pretentious jam band crap. Who can even listen to this shit?

Chris: You are completely wrong. Jam bands in the vein of Phish just play off a singular theme most of the time and riff almost purely to show off the quality of their musicianship, which is usually high. Mars Volta is nothing like a jam band — they don't sit there and masturbate their guitars into a frenzy or give the drummer some for 10 minutes. Can you honestly say that they are a jam band like the Dead, or Phish? Last time I checked, I didn't hear anything in their lyrics about some milk producer (Phish) or dancing hypercolor bears.

Dustin: When I call them a jam band, I use the term to say that they write long, boring songs and sweat their own musical ability to the point that it seems the band's entire focus is proving how talented they are instead of making music that is enjoyable to listen to. Sonically they're nothing like Phish or the Dead, and lyrically, well, they're nothing like anyone. In fact, I believe they get their lyrics from dropping word-of-the-day flashcards on the floor and assembling them randomly.

Chris: I compare their lyricism with that of improvisation in jazz. Improvisation comes purely from the inner workings of the individual, and the expression is what it is. There is inner need for human beings to make sense of words, for them to tell the listener a story, a vision, or a feeling. Yet how accurate are words when it comes to expressing certain things?
Look, it's self indulgent music. By making their lyrics so insensible, they obviously don't care what people think. Yet they have quite a following? Free of the judgment of your personal tastes, what can you attribute their popularity to? You can't purely place it on the shoudlers of MTV airplay, as their songs totally and completely buck the trend of the rest of the absolute shit that they play.

Dustin: "Cygnus... Vismund Cygnus: a. SARCOPHAGI b. UMBILICAL SYLLABES c. FACILIS DESCERNUS AVERNI d. CON SAFO"
Lyric samples:
"A lachrymal cloud" "An abortion that survived a lineage of bastard mastacation" "Chrome the fetal mirage"
Just the fact that they would name a song that name, give it four parts with even more retarded names, and use lyrics like those should prove without a doubt that these guys are douche bags.
Why do people like them? I don't know. I assume people want to rock. At The Drive In rocked, Mars Volta's first album kinda rocked, and this new one has some elements of rock in it. But is it worth it? For the few seconds of cool riffs, do I really need to listen to five minutes of space sound affects made by a guy who just downloaded Acid Pro?

Chris: Oh yeah, I forgot — rock really never had any unitelligible lyrics before Mars Volta. There was this band in the 60's called the Beatles who sang crazy shit like "oh-blah dee" and "octopus's garden."
When it comes to their lyrics, it's just them being self-indulgent. Music translates emotions that are more easily empathized with instead of logically understood. When it comes to De-Loused in the Comatorium, which is about their bandmate who died, you cannot honestly say that even though their lyrics might not appeal to your higher faculties of reason, you have to admit that there is definitely a strain of sorrow that comes through.
And really, you strike me as an individual who could appreciate some prog rock that doesn't fit into radio-sized four minute blocks. Yeah, there are some spacy things on Frances the Mute, but do you have a three-chord maximum or something? Patience, warrior.

Dustin: If the music was good, I wouldn't care about the lyrics. I only reference them because the music is annoying and pretentious mishmosh as well. The lyrics are just the most obvious expression of how obnoxious this band is, not too mention the funniest.
This band is best summed up through the sixth song on Deloused. At least I think it's the sixth song — it's hard to remember looking at titles like "Eriatarka" and "Cicatriz Esp." Anyway, this song starts off awesome — just kicks major ass. Sick riff, everything about it is dope. The end is the same way. But what's in the middle? Three minutes of bleeps, then at one point total silence! Total silence! Why? WHY?!
For every cool minute of rock on a Mars Volta album, there's five minutes of nonsense, beeps, clicks, chirping birdie sounds, droning crap and pointless noodling. They're wasting my time – and that's like murdering me, just a teeny tiny bit.

Chris: Mostly anybody can write a sick riff — and it seems that Mars Volta can do it without even thinking. But let's get a little post-modern about the contrast between those boop-ity, bop-ity bits and the awesome parts of the song. Obviously they aren't writing show tunes where there has to be a couple of refrains from the coda. Why do it? I think they are doing it BECAUSE those early bits are so easily digestible. There are elements of epic house that they are bringing to the table — which probably is the reason for their wide success. Yet it's a pretty interesting thing to do with rock. They maintain space between their pop-sensibilities (their hooks) and their possible motivations for deconstruction.

Dustin: Deconstruction, epic house, blah blah blah. Frances the Mute is one hour plus of guitar nerd crap voiced over by a whiny screaming baby with a stupid afro. Do you really like it, or do you just want to like it?

Chris: Yes I like Frances the Mute, yes I would wear their silly fucking T-shirt and yes I like guitar nerd crap because I was reared on Rush, Judas Priest, and Yngwie Malmsteen. Fuck music nazis who secretly want everybody else to like what they like so then can turn around and diss it and feel superior.

Dustin: Fuck music nazis? Hey buddy, who the hell do you think you are. If I can't go online and write about how much someone else's favorite album sucks, then the terrorists have already won. This is what freedom is all about — I get to tell you Mars Volta sucks, then you get to tell me I'm an asshole. Then you go home and listen to them and I listen to something good and we're both happy. Everyone wins!

Chris: The terrorists have already won if people like me can't listen to music that makes me want to jump off of the Tri-bizzle without the smirks of the chronically undepressed and whose judgement is serotonin-ally free.

Dustin: Kiss me.