Nightmare on Elsewhere: Chris vs. Jay on Gnarls Barkley

Chris: I LOVE Cee-Lo — his two solo albums are fantastic, and I didn't blame him for leaving Goodie Mob — he was trying to bring them in a direction that they needed to go in. That being said, "St. Elsewhere"sucks as an album, as it is really is an attempt by a knob-twiddler (Dangermouse) to legitimize himself as a producer. Don't get me wrong — "Crazy" is a dope summer song, but after that, he's just a Prince Paul rerun fueled by gimmickry.

Jay: First off, it's Danger Mouse, not Dangermouse but whatever. Second, I'm never gonna write the book on electronic music, but "knob-twiddlers" refers to producers who specialize in IDM e.g. Four Tet, old Caribou etc. One look at DM's discography shows Pelican City (Portishead-influenced downtempo), Gemini + Dangerdoom (hip-hop), Gorillaz (Funk/pop/hip-hop hybrid) and the Grey Album (Mash-up).
Also, and I'm not really sure if this is an opinion or just obvious fact, but "knob-twiddling" albums have always remained on the fringes of music, away from any mainstream roads, and one listen to Elsewhere shows it to be a pop/soul album. Of course, I'm also assuming you've listened to the album which, if not correct, I apologize. So I'm not really sure where the knob-twiddling comes in unless that's just your pejorative phrase for any producer you don't like, in which case, I again apologize.

Chris: Thank you Senor Musicnerd; condescension and hair splitting will get you nowhere. Stop bullshitting — you know what I mean. Gnarls Barkley consists of Danger Mouse (really? please.) pushing buttons and Cee-Lo singing. It's a crass sort of legitimization that people like Chuck Klosterman and yourself are giving this guy. What you SHOULD be apologizing for (I sense a Catholic guilt complex on the your end) is the Olestra-type digestability of this album. The whole album is pre-processed beats for the masses. It's as if he took all of Pete Rock's best hooks, Sly and the Family's horn blowing, hit "cut" and "paste", and with a little timing, had a couple of songs. I understand that all music is derivative, but come on! I put peanut butter on one slice of bread, jelly on the other and slapped that shit together, and nobody gave me four stars!

Jay: Senor Musicnerd? How did I become Hispanic all of a sudden?
What sort of legitimization am I giving him? That he makes beats? I don't even understand that comment. Why does he get bashed for making music people like? If anything, you sound like Pablo Nerdudo by shitting on something simply because of its digestability to "the masses." If anything becomes a commercial success, some people like yourself immediately dismiss it as "easily expendable," but sometimes there's a reason why albums are universally loved, namely because it builds on familiar sounds without becoming derivative. I just don't feel the "derivative argument" holds up here, especially with the non-cheesy use of gospel in a secular, pop record.
And I like your earlier sandwich-making better.

Chris: The legitimization of artistry. I am never doing to front on a head that wants to make some chedda but this album should be called out for what it is — aspirational porn for beatmaking losers who flip back and forth from the Jenna dildo scene to GarageBand.
The thing is, that when I like an album, I committ to it financially — I just don't download it willy nilly. This album is almost WANTING to be downloaded illegally — why would I want to spend money on it, much less time? Also, I like to share my music with others. Are you seriously going to bump this album outside of "Crazy" at your summer BBQ or out of your Bentley? Hell no. "Crazy" is like some lube for the drunk dry funking that this album is surely going to give you. Imagine that you're making out with some vivacious woman at the club and coax her into a cab. And you're doing all sorts of stuff to her in the cab, and she's reacting all bothered. And you're like "darn, I can't wait to hit this."
That's "Crazy".
But then you take her up, strip her down, and she's as wet as some burnt toast, with some pubic hair on it — toast a la Clarence Thomas.
That's the rest of the album.

Jay: I had to take a minute to sit on this one. Binghamton University was pretty lacking in the Creative Writing department so sadly, i'm not sure i'll be able to live up to your "response." But I think you were trying to say "Crazy" is the only good song on the album.
Or you recently had relations with a female.
Or both.
I'll just say this: "Crazy" is a great song. Not because the "masses" like it. Just because it's instantly catchy without succumbing to saccharine pop. Not all of the album is like that. Some of it is fairly dark (for poppier territory) and makes it a diverse listen in my opinion. And there you have it. Feel free to have the last word, and don't forget to mention porn, dildos and pubic hair as they're phenomenal references to why you don't like this album.

Chris: Art/music is made to provoke a reaction — hence the liberties with my description. Attempts to denigrate my opinion through the guise of word choice condescension earn little legitimacy at my Round Table of Discussion. If you are not being sarcastic then my opinion of you as a man with taste recovers slightly from the bland kudos that you give this album.
Look, if you are telling me I should love "Crazy" because it's "instantly catchy without succumbing to saccharine pop," then I've already won. You are present and happy with the knowledge of drinking the Kool-Aid, and I can't argue with that.
Hey, I was thinking of making a Sapphic porn, with dildos that have real live pubic hair. Looking for investors — you in?

Jay: Only if we can include a male lead named Gnarls Barkley.

Endtrodouching: Jay and Dustin vs. DJ Shadow

Interview with DJ Shadow:
Q: What's the Bay Area reaction been to your new 'Hyphy' tracks?
A: I heard "3 Freaks" played on KMEO which is the main urban outlet radio-wise and for the first time in my life it was in context, played alongside all these hyphy records. So we did a video and that got played next to 50 Cent videos! This gave me confidence to continue down that road. It's not as if I grew up getting rock radio love or any type of radio love so for that to happen it was like "oh I'm gonna come with something better next time!"

Jay: I've only heard the single but I already hate the album.

Dustin: Let's battle over an album we haven't heard yet. Only I can't do the pro side because I already hate it as well.

Jay: We just could make fun of the tracklisting and guest names:
1. Outsider Intro
2. This Time (I'm Gonna Try It My Way)
3. 3 Freaks-Feat. Keak Da Sneak & Turf Talk
4. Droop-E Drop
5. Turf Dancing-Feat. The Federation & Animaniaks
6. Keep Em Close-Feat. Nump
7. Seein Thangs-Feat. David Banner
8. Broken Levee Blues
9. Artifact [Instrumental]
10. Backstage Girl-Feat. Phonte Coleman
11. Triplicate / Something Happened That Day
12. The Tiger-Feat. Sergio Pizzorno & Christopher Karloff
13. Erase You-Feat. Chris James
14. What Have I Done-Feat. Christina Carter
15. You Made It-Feat. Chris James
16. Enuff-Feat. Q-Tip & Lateef The Truth Speaker
17. Dats My Part-Feat. E-40
Even the Animaniaks half two spel there naim weird.

Dustin: I didn't realize it was a spelling mistake - I just assumed the album is another one of those Cartoon Network side projects since half the song titles were written by five-year-olds.
But those sure am some silly names. Everyone must have been so pissed at Shadow for ruining the album by throwing on that lame-ass "Chris James."
"You think I named myself Sergio Pizzorno so I could be upstaged by a guy whose moniker is two of the most popular names in the English language?"

Jay: Even "Droopy" is spelled wrong! They couldn't even leave that alone and had to make it "Droop-E." Unless that's someone's name which is equally retarded.
And "Dats My Part"? Who the fuck came up with that? I guarantee they were all in the studio one day, smoking, and one of the other misspelled miscreants started telling everyone about "a hot verse I wrote" but he was so blazed, he read someone else's verse. Bam! A song title! It's like the Beatles discovering acid except completely forgettable in every respect.

Dustin: Yeah, they didn't have enough room for track 18 — "Levels Up on Mic Three, Yo".
"Turf-Dancing" is either about celebrating after you win the Super Bowl or embarrassing rival thugs by forcing them to dance at gunpoint.

Jay: So this is Turf Talk:











The man who made one of the most brilliant, brooding, thoughtful albums of all time is now working with rappers who feel the best image representation of themselves is squint and eat their necklace.
I'm still try to figure out how "Nump" got his name.

Dustin: Nump is actually a girl rapper who is both a nun and a pimp. Technically she's a madam but I don't think the hyphy scene is too big on details. And, don't diss Turf Talk man, that was a hot colabilation.
By the way, is it not ironic that Q-Tip makes his 5 millionth guest appearance on a track named "Enuff"?

Jay: Track 19 — "Rent Check" — featuring Q-Tip, Craig Mack and Jeru the Damaja.

Dustin: I'd just like to end this by saying that DJ Shadow was bragging about having his video shown next to 50 Cent's video. That's like a diamond bragging that it was dropped on a turd.

Witchcraft: Chris vs. Dustin on Wolfmother

Chris: I illegally downloaded this album and listened it to it ONCE. I heard the hype, followed the hype, and proceeded to throw up in my mouth. As far as I am concerned, this is "lad-rock" in the vein of Death From Above 1979, with very little substance but a lot of volume. These guys have packaged themselves as having an edge, but I think Hanson from 10 years ago would take them out in a battle of the bands.

Dustin: I’d like to know what you mean by “lacking substance.” They are a simple band: their goal was to rock, they listened to some Sabbath and Zepplin, wrote an album, and now they rock. Wolfmother does not ponder the effects of globalization on our culture. Wolfmother writes catchy rock tunes with ass-kicking riffs. Is that okay? Is that frigging legal anymore? Am I allowed to go to a concert and have a good fucking time and raise some devil horns in the air and say fuck yeah when I hear a good solo, damn it! What the fuck is with this persecution of anyone who tries to rock? FUCK!

Chris: You can rock all the fuck you want, but if you sound like the band that Robert Plant would have started if he grew up in THE SHIRE (surrounded by hobbits and warlocks and 21-sided dice) then no, you can't rock. You are just listening to prepackaged, recycled rawk from the 70's with a grown-up A&R's pubescent notions of what "rocks" — hence my line about the lack of substance.
Unfortunately, I have a good memory and I can hear their influences. Obviously you can too — you pointed out the Zep and Sabbath tendencies in their music. I guess if I was 15 and had wack older brothers, sisters and parents, and heard this the first time without being exposed to the good stuff, I would shit my pants and stop taking out my sexual energy on my zits and try to go out and get laid — it does rock. But as someone who's been around the musical block, I can't legitimize this as good music.
Is this is what music has become, when even the new bands are dragging out old standards like a senile Sinatra?

Dustin: Well maybe since you listened to the album “ONCE” you can’t tell the difference between a band that simply relies on classic sounds from a band that makes fake bullshit (like The Darkness). Yes, the first time you hear Wolfmother, it’s like, eh, more rehashed music stolen from the golden age. But if you actually listen to the album, you’ll see that they are actually excellent song writers. Instead of relying on one riff, the tracks change and evolve. They’re even better live, extending songs with solos and playing up to the crowd.
Maybe if you gave them a chance you could actually enjoy it but noooooo. We’re all so quick to jump on the hater bandwagon these days if someone doesn’t reinvent the wheel. “Wow, Sufjan plays the english horn AND the oboe on track four!” Who gives a shit?

Chris: Not interested in hearing their "excellent song writing." Not interested in hearing their "extending songs with solos and playing up to the crowd." I'm not in the business of music criticism — I'm in the business of pleasure. I don't friggin care about their musicianship — I want to hear something new. Take what somebody else did well and move on from it — that's when you got me. But if you are just writing and playing what has been known to work in the past, then you are just after my sentimental buck.
Music like this is ALWAYS going to be good. Maybe the laspe between when it becomes cool again will be shorter, due to the Internet. But right now, all it sounds like to me retro-poser-posturing. I have no problem with being 27 and liking the music that I like — I have no need to relive my high school days by pretending that I never heard anything like this before.

Dustin: Music like this is ALWAYS going to be good? Okay, well, you got me there. Yup, can’t argue with that.

Chris: Music like this is always going to be good for people who never heard anything like it before. If you have, its a friggin snore fest.

At War On The Mystics: Paula vs. Jay on The Flaming Lips live

Jay: I could take the con side in a battle over the new Flaming Lips album and win solely on "The Yeah Yeah Yeah Song." Bleeecchhh.

Paula: Yeah, that's about as annoying as it gets.

Jay: That song reminds me of a bad parody song that Ween would write. Should've been a B-side instead of the friggin single.

Paula: It could just as easily be the latest They Might Be Giants jingle for a Nickelodeon show. But I'd rather take the con side on their live show. The Webster Hall gig they played on April Fool's could have been awesome (not to mention longer) if Wayne had stopped yapping about what a great time we were supposed to be having banding against Bush and playing with giant balloons. It was, how you say... lame.

Jay: I must respectfully disagree on the Webster show. The Bush-baiting was annoying and yes, it's the same show they've done for a while, but the aliens, santa clauses, children's animal sounds and "War Pigs" encore all entertained me. How many boring indie rock acts that do nothing on stage can I sit through consecutively?

Paula: I don't know. Maybe I've just seen them too many times, but their live show feels so gimmicky and rehearsed ("War Pigs" encore aside) at this point that I fail to see how it's any different from the latest generic indie rock act's (insert really long, non-sensical name here) live set. And I have to listen to Wayne Coyne's politics and "man, you guys are the best fans in the world (group hug)" hippie sentiments. If you shut your eyes it's like you're at a Phish concert.

Jay: I think it's different in that most indie rock acts run through their songs and that, while respectable and enjoyable, don't vary too much from the studio versions. With Lips shows, though they haven't changed much, they're still better than your average concert in that they actually put on a "show" versus a "concert." A big difference to me.
As for the hippie sentiments, again, I'd rather have a band I like, a band I invest time, money and energy into, a band that has given me good memories and many hours of listening pleasure, tell me they give a shit than some spoiled jackass like Craig Nicholls who STILL owes me $20 after drunkenly stumbling on stage, sucking with his piece of shit, third rate Nirvana band, then stumbling off. Unless I'm watching Pete Doherty die on stage (and please, God, let me be there when that happens), I'll go for the hippie love over blasé nonchalance any time. Hell, even Morrissey was appreciative when I saw him.

Paula: But how many times can you see the same show before it becomes too standard and predictable? For the most part, I like the Flaming Lips and their weirdness and I hope they prove me wrong when they tour bigger venues later this year in support of Mystics. The fact that Coyne keeps having to tell the audience what a mothertruckin' great time they're supposed to be having is extremely telling of how tired their bit has become. Ever been to a party where the host kept asking you how much fun you were having every five minutes? How fast did that get old?
Think of a band like Broken Social Scene. Having 200 members on stage at the same time could get old really fast, but every time I've seen them it's been different and just as fun. They're on stage, they're having a great time and they're making fantastic music without having to check in on the audience to make sure they "get it." The Lips used to be able to do that and that's part of the reason I'll always be a fan and, like you, respect them and cherish the many memories they've given me. I know; I'm such a sap. But seriously, Coyne should stop bemoaning Bushie (how many Republicans were in the audience anyway?) long enough to remember how to genuinely throw the party he keeps talking about.
And, as a PSA of sorts, if you ever attend Pete Dougherty's final train wreck, in addition to taking pictures please promise me you'll dress like the boy in the plastic bubble. That guy just oozes crotch critters.