Dustin: I cannot believe I just listened to the entire Antony and the Johnsons album all the way through and nobody paid me for it.Jay: You are expanding your musical knowledge.
Dustin: More like, I'm expanding my threshold for musical pain. I guess if I ever become a Central American dictator who holes up in a nunnery to avoid capture by the U.S. Military and winds up getting bombarded with high decibel Antony and the Johnsons records, I'll have to thank you for this.
Jay: That's really how you're gonna start the battle?
Dustin: Do we have to start a blog called Battle Over Battle Over Bands? Here, how's this for a start: Today I listened to "I Am A Bird Now" by Antony and the Johnsons. It was a painful experience that made we want to stick sharpened pencils in my ears.
Jay: You should take comfort in the fact that even if you jam your ears til they bleed because of his music, Antony would run -- actually, probably float -- over to you, bring your head to his bosom, and console you so you feel no pain.
Dustin: Is that like the old unfunny joke where you tell someone you have a headache and then they propose to kick in you shin so you'll forget about your headache? Because having my head in Antony's bosom would definitely make me feel a different kind of pain from the kind I experienced from his album, although I doubt it would make it would make me forget about it. It would probably make me remember it even more since he would most likely be whimpering like he does on the album.
Jay: What you call "whimpering" I prefer to label "gentle crooning." Not all music has to be angry Germans dressed up in camouflage using a growling, guttural voice to get their message across. You don't like Antony because he threatens you and your masculinity. If anything, you should not like yourself over him. His is the vocal equivalent of butter on a velvet pillow.
Dustin: It's not so much that he threatens my masculinity, it's more that I really can't relate when he sings "One day I'll grow up and be a beautiful woman." But maybe that's just me. I also have trouble with "Fistful of Love." When my favorite bands sing about about fisting, I prefer them not to be on the receiving end. I like the way Tool handled the topic, and their persuasion methods were pretty funny too: "This may hurt a little but it's something you'll get used to." Who's gonna buy that line? Well, I guess Antony did.
Jay: I'm a little surprised you would take "Fistful of Love" so literally. I mean, if we're talking about the same-titled song by 70s Southern trash rock group Black Oak Arkansas, then it'd be understandable to assume that they are either talking about a certain deviant act or, since they're from the South, more probably beating their true love (for love's sake of course).
Otherwise, listening to "I feel your fists/And I know it's out of love" seems like the ole metaphorical unrequited love rearing its effeminate head. If you take it literally, does that also mean Tool's "Hooker With a Penis" has nothing to do with people who mock the band and call them sell-outs but continue to support them and is really about a third-legged prostitute?
Dustin: Hey, who said it can't be about fisting AND unrequited love. Fisting sure sounds like unrequited love if you ask me. And how about "My Lady Story?" I take it that's a metaphor too.
Jay: Excellent use of the avoidance argument style. I commend you.
Dustin: Thank you sir.
8 comments:
Winner: Jay.
Why? Successful demonstration that Dustin does not understand this album. This is a blueprint for winning all subsequent battles.
Dustin hit hard in the first few rounds, and I was sure that he would win this battle. As always, Dustin's writing was intelligent and very amusing. However, Jay stood his ground. He calmly and efficiently demonstrated that Dustin does not understand this music.
Let this be a lesson to all: Don't criticize what you don't understand. Somebody famous said that, Dylan I think.
I understand Brittney Spears (or any Teenypop for that matter), and I can easily say that she is crap.
I do not understand Opera. I haven't listened to alot of it, but I haven't liked what I have heard. Perhaps more listening would turn me around, perhaps not. But until I understand it, I'm not going to critize it...regardless of the fact that I don't like it.
While Teenypop and Opera are pretty extreme examples, they demonstrate how every battle will be won or lost on this blog.
-Russ
I don't understand the album? What a pretentious load of crap. That's a great way to combat someone when they disagree with you. "You don't like it? Well you just don't GET it."
Blow me.
Sounds like someone's a little bitter 'cause they lost.
I'm still a winner because you listen to Antony and the Johnsons.
russ, your comment is worthless for the same reason dustin already pointed out: it is pretentious and insulting. music is all a matter of personal taste, and how certain sounds appeal to a particular person.
the "you don't like it? you just don't get it" argument is stupid. "understanding" as you are using it is meaningless. all you end up saying, in an indirect (and arrogant) way, is that your taste is somehow superior.
what does it mean that you "understand" britney and have concluded that she is crap? it means you have listened to britney and don't like it or respect it. many of britney's songs are carefully crafted and appealing tunes constructed by some of the best producers and professional songwriters available. does your apparently complete understanding of teenypop recognize that fact? and how about the fact that britney is spelled with only one T? i think you should go home and study before ever criticizing her again...
and what does it mean that you don't understand opera? it means that it doesn't appeal to you, but you reserve judgment to a certain degree because you know it is considered a complex high art form. why not drop the whole higher understanding bullshit and just say i hate opera and teenypop?
so what does your dylan-inspired (maybe) advice essentially read? don't criticize something that i like, because my taste is superior to yours and you are just too stupid to understand why.
VJ:
russ, your comment is worthless for the same reason dustin already pointed out: it is pretentious and insulting. music is all a matter of personal taste, and how certain sounds appeal to a particular person.
Russ:
Well then I owe Dustin an apology, as well as anyone else who I offended. I had no intention of being pretentious or insulting. This is my honest opinion.
I don’t totally agree that music is totally subject to personal taste and how sounds appeal to a particular person. If I did, I wouldn’t bother with this blog. Why discuss any of this if it’s all about how a single particular person feels? Why should any of us give a shit?
Judgment of music is a complex blend of between objective and subjective factors. It is not only about one person’s particular feelings.
Are Dustin’s feelings on the album valid? Yes! Is he kind of missing the point? I think so. Could I be wrong? Sure. I’ve been wrong before. I used to love Phish. So did you.
VJ:
the "you don't like it? you just don't get it" argument is stupid. "understanding" as you are using it is meaningless. all you end up saying, in an indirect (and arrogant) way, is that your taste is somehow superior.
Russ:
Well, then I must again apologize. I do not mean to say that my taste is superior…actually, I never did actually say that I liked this album in my post. I said that Jay won the argument because of his style…not because he shared my thoughts. I thought that was fairly transparent, but I guess not. Apologies.
VJ:
what does it mean that you "understand" britney and have concluded that she is crap? it means you have listened to britney and don't like it or respect it. many of britney's songs are carefully crafted and appealing tunes constructed by some of the best producers and professional songwriters available. does your apparently complete understanding of teenypop recognize that fact?
Russ:
Here is how I understand Britney. Her music is made to appeal to a much lower common denominator. Specifically, teenage girls with uncultured palettes for music.
Is that bad? No! More power to her and her extremely talented producers! No sarcasm – I’m well aware of the top notch production and writers employed by this machine, and I have great respect for the product that they construct. Their efforts are supported by fantastic sales. And believe me, I have great respect for fantastic sales figures.
These girls are going to buy bad music no matter what, why not hers? I’m all for making money, and I have great respect for the formula that they have constructed. It is slick, easily digestible, and hits the medulla very hard.
However, as music qua music, no thank you. It’s the lack of impact on the cerebrum that I take issue with.
Vijay:
and how about the fact that britney is spelled with only one T? i think you should go home and study before ever criticizing her again...
Russ:
I’ll let Lou Reed answer your criticism of my typographical error:
That's so nonsensical it's beneath comment.
Vijay:
and what does it mean that you don't understand opera? it means that it doesn't appeal to you, but you reserve judgment to a certain degree because you know it is considered a complex high art form. why not drop the whole higher understanding bullshit and just say i hate opera and teenypop?
Russ:
Change “Opera” in my post to “Country-Western” and I still stand behind it 100%. I don’t get C-W either. It is written to appeal to a particular culture; a culture that I neither accept nor reject, but simply do not understand. Do I like C-W? No. Is C-W bad? I don’t know, I don’t understand it. It’s not about “higher understanding”. It’s about understanding – period.
VJ:
so what does your dylan-inspired (maybe) advice essentially read? don't criticize something that i like, because my taste is superior to yours and you are just too stupid to understand why.
Russ:
Again, I never said that I liked or disliked this album. It was a commentary on why I though Jay won the battle, and I can honestly say that it was not influenced by my feelings on this album one way or another. Obviously I wrote my post very poorly, as you misinterpreted it on several levels. That’s my bad, not yours.
Your tone, however, I take issue with. But that’s ok. I can also be a dick sometimes. Like, a lot.
thanks for the infomation
im gonna say dustin is a winner. my name is dustin, and i argue exactly the same way he does. i feel like dustin doesnt need to understand anything about anything if hes asked to state his opinion. dustin rules!
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